What do you think of this ancient new way approach to missional?

[Kristi Weber]

This website explains an approach to missional they call ancient new way. What is your assessment of it?

http://eastsunshine.org/being-the-body-of-christ-in-the-ancient-new...

[Joy Rousseau]

Thank you for bringing this Website to our attention. I am facilitating a class now where we are being honest about the Restoration Movement and how it still NEEDS to move! What we have essentially restored in the cofC is Constantine's view of "church" (not a word even remotely in the first century texts), instead of restoring First Century Ecclesia. He put us in rows facing a podium with a liturgy and presiding clergy. He took away the "one another", face to face, eyeball to eyeball, house to house, day by day assemblies that sent the Gospel throughout the known world. He needed to "manage" these Christians and tell them when to worship, how to worship, what to think when they worshipped, and why they worshipped. Lord, help us to take your Word and restore the "called out" who are "sent out" to find the Lost, the Lame, and the Lukewarm so that we are Living It!

[Joy Rousseau]

Thank you for bringing this Website to our attention. I am facilitating a class now where we are being honest about the Restoration Movement and how it still NEEDS to move! What we have essentially restored in the cofC is Constantine's view of "church" (not a word even remotely in the first century texts), instead of restoring First Century Ecclesia. He put us in rows facing a podium with a liturgy and presiding clergy. He took away the "one another", face to face, eyeball to eyeball, house to house, day by day assemblies that sent the Gospel throughout the known world. He needed to "manage" these Christians and tell them when to worship, how to worship, what to think when they worshipped, and why they worshipped. Lord, help us to take your Word and restore the "called out" who are "sent out" to find the Lost, the Lame, and the Lukewarm so that we are Living It!

[Joy Rousseau]

Thank you for bringing this Website to our attention. I am facilitating a class now where we are being honest about the Restoration Movement and how it still NEEDS to move! What we have essentially restored in the cofC is Constantine's view of "church" (not a word even remotely in the first century texts), instead of restoring First Century Ecclesia. He put us in rows facing a podium with a liturgy and presiding clergy. He took away the "one another", face to face, eyeball to eyeball, house to house, day by day assemblies that sent the Gospel throughout the known world. He needed to "manage" these Christians and tell them when to worship, how to worship, what to think when they worshipped, and why they worshipped. Lord, help us to take your Word and restore the "called out" who are "sent out" to find the Lost, the Lame, and the Lukewarm so that we are Living It!

by the way...Constantine was never baptized (maybe sprinkled on death bed) so that he was not led by God's Spirit to interpret Scripture for anyone. He is not a hero of Christianity, he became its curse.

[Joy Rousseau]

Lynn Alan Heath said:

Joy Rousseau said:

Thank you for bringing this Website to our attention. I am facilitating a class now where we are being honest about the Restoration Movement and how it still NEEDS to move! What we have essentially restored in the cofC is Constantine's view of "church" (not a word even remotely in the first century texts), instead of restoring First Century Ecclesia. He put us in rows facing a podium with a liturgy and presiding clergy. He took away the "one another", face to face, eyeball to eyeball, house to house, day by day assemblies that sent the Gospel throughout the known world. He needed to "manage" these Christians and tell them when to worship, how to worship, what to think when they worshipped, and why they worshipped. Lord, help us to take your Word and restore the "called out" who are "sent out" to find the Lost, the Lame, and the Lukewarm so that we are Living It!

by the way...Constantine was never baptized (maybe sprinkled on death bed) so that he was not led by God's Spirit to interpret Scripture for anyone. He is not a hero of Christianity, he became its curse.

By your comment about Constantine, i.e., (he) was never baptized...so that he was not led by God's Spirit to interpret Scripture for anyone....are you implying that those who are baptized, even today, are led by the Holy Spirit in some way so as to be able to interpret Scripture correctly?

I am referring to several things and several Scriptures:

(1) He called himself the Vicar of Christ (Bishop of Bischops) which of course, he could not have been...not even because he was not a Christian, but because there is no such position in the Lord's Body

(2) 1 Corinthians 2:14-15  Only those with the indwelling spirit can understand spiritual things. God's Spirit helps us to be enlightened by His Scriptures and to make spiritual judgments 

(3) Being "mature" in the faith means we have allowed the Spirit to transform us 2 Corinthians 3:18 interpreting His Will for our lives.

(4) Eph 1 chapter - we are given the Holy Spirit to enlighten us and give us spiritual understanding.

(5) John 14:17 - the world cannot "know" (gnosis) God. Therefore, they are not ones to teach us His Will.

 

I'm sorry, I know this is a very trite answer to a very important question. But, yes...I do mean..this man should not have had any leadership role in taking the Lord's body in any direction.

[Joy Rousseau]

I was raised to believe that there was no indwelling of the Spirit...but today, I have to agree to disagree with this stance. Without the Spirit we are not Children of God..1 John 3:9... This issue cannot be debated here...but I do recommend "Forgotten God" by Francis Chan. Without the Spirit we are not transformed 2 Cor 3:18...I pray that your understanding be enlightened....as well as mine.  

[James Nored]

@Lynn Alan Heath-You indicate that you do not believe that the Spirit helps us understand the Bible, or else non-Christians could not understand the Bible. What do you do with 1 Corinthians 2:10-15:

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spiritwithin them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

It would seem to me that this Scripture points to the fact that the Spirit does indeed help us understand God's word/message--whether that is God's message in Scripture or his message shared/preached by Christians. In fact, we see that God opened Lydia's heart to Paul's message in Acts 16, so the Spirit helps those are open to God to hear and understand God's message. 

Your thoughts?

[Joy Rousseau]

Study More at: http://joyofbiblelearning.blogspot.com/2011/03/sanctification-lesso...

 

I was raised believing there were no more miracles and heard it preached from the pulpit more often than the Good News. However, as an adult, I am capable of researching and answering questions I have always had. In the 1950, 60, and 70’s it was popular to assume that three Greek words meant the same thing. These three Greek words are used in Acts 2:22 & in 2 Corinthians 12:12 (see also Romans 15:19). When God differentiates between terms, we should pay attention!

Would it be ok if we actually went to Scripture for a minute and look at this topic of Spirit-filled Christians and the Miraculous Power of God which is still very much in effect. 

Scripture clearly distinguishes between "signs", "wonders", and "miracles" by using 3 different Greek words for them. However, our English Bibles don’t often differentiate and interchangeably use the word “miracle” for all three. This results in false interpretations.

The three words are used for specific purposes by God.

(1) Teras (G5059) = "Wonders": Miracles to amaze those who needed to believe and who needed to give credence to God's new Will for man (Deut 6:22; John 4:48; Acts 5:12; Acts 14:3; Hebrews 2:4)

(2) Semeions = "Signs" (G4592): Miracles that fulfill and confirm God's promises. (Exodus 10:2; 1 Sam 10:7-9; Mark 16:20; John 2:11)

(3) Dunamis (G1411)= Supernatural, Devine Power, Strength or "Miracle": Still with us to this day. This power is what saves us in Romans 1:16 (dunamis). It can ONLY be "appraised" by those who are Spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:14-15 )

Why does the Greek text carefully identify 3 distinct types, of what we have often lumped into one word, "miracle?"

CLARIFICATION:

There is a difference between a "sign", a "wonder", and "miracle". See if you can understand the differences.

--Signs and Wonders were seen in the physical world and could even be seen by "natural" men. (Acts 6:8; 5:12; 4:30; Romans 15:19) Remember that there are 3 kinds of "men": (1) natural, (2) spiritual, and (3) carnal according 1 Corinthians chapters 2 & 3.

------Signs were to demonstrate the fulfillment or confirmation of prophecy or promises made by God (i.e.  as prophesied in Isaiah 66:19 OR signs as in Isaiah 35:5-6; Joel 2:28-32) These are just a few of the thousands of signs in your O.T. fulfilled in the N.T.

------You might think of Wonders as "red flags" to both believers and unbelievers. These red flags were to get the attention of man. To let them know that God was bringing about a New Covenant. Wonders were God's way of saying, "Pay Attention!" We saw Wonders with the Creation, with Noah's covenant with God, Abraham's covenant with God, Moses' covenant with God and we see it with Christ's covenant with believers. Wonders "started" the transition and proclamation of a new covenant and then natural order took over. (Acts 14:3-4)
 
Signs and Wonders were only to exist for a brief time and then they were to fade away when order was established.  In 1 Corinthians 13: 8-13, Paul calls the Signs and Wonders "childish" because they were only for the "beginning" or establishment of the church. The church would then move on to more "mature" characteristics such as "love".

In Romans1:11, Paul tells the Romans that he would "lay on hands" to some of the brethren to impart some special gifts so that the church might become "established". After the church was "established" there would no longer be a need for the "laying on of hands" for special gifts.

Remember that the early church did not have the complete Bible to utilize for teaching. When the perfect will of God was given through the Apostles (1 Corinthians 13:10f) and assembled together as our Scriptures are today, there would no longer be a need for signs and wonders.

This next point is very important. NOWHERE in the Bible does it ever tell us that God's supernatural, miraculous power (dunamis) was going to go away. Quite the contrary, God promises us this "dunamis" in our inner man throughout the New Covenant.

Read:
---Romans 1:16, Romans 15:13; Ephesians 1:19-20; 2 Corinthians 10:3-4a; 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

IMPORTANT POINTS:

(1) We are "saved" by the power (dunamis) of God. Romans 1:16
(2) We can only live the life of a Christian through power (dunamis) of God. Romans 15:13
(3) God WANTS to give us his great and surpassing power! Ephesians 1:19-20
(4) Through God's power (dunamis) we have strength to war against the flesh. 2 Corinthians 10:3-4a
(5) We should only desire to preach the Gospel through the power of God because He is the only one who can bring the increase. 1 Corinthians 2:4-5
(6) The Holy Spirit "reveals" our Spiritual Blessing to us (1 Corinthians 2:10-15) through the power of God. We have as much "dunamis" as the amount of submission we give to the will of God. God's Spirit will only live in a SUBMISSIVE HEART. Those who are arrogant, self-willed, and full of themselves have no Power and no Life in themselves.

REFLECTION: What can you conclude from the above Scriptures?

 

 

[Joy Rousseau]

What does Scripture say about those who "practice a form of godliness" but deny the "dunamis", power of God? 2 Timothy 3:1-5